Consider adding this new rule.

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Consider adding this new rule.

Post by namisuken on Thu May 19, 2016 6:56 am

The relationship between Mods and Users doesn't work sometimes. People can't be controlled, however, to be a mod you have to be assertive and respectful. The only interested is to keep the Chat working and making it fun or entertaining enough for users to stay.
When we complain about a Mod, nothing happens. Many users just be quiet or end up leaving the chat with hope someone will do something.
In my opinion, and knowing we are what makes the site work - the users - , I would like to see a voting system.
If there's a problem with any mod, and the arguments we present are reasonable enough we should be able to vote for him/her be demoded. When it reaches a certain number its because something really is wrong.

I hope someone agreed with me so the change can happen. remember, we are what the site lives of. We have more power than mods, it's up to us.

Thank you,
Nami.
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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Deathwalker on Thu May 19, 2016 8:30 am

Iam supporting this idea but with the addition of making sure the vote aswell as the results should be publicly avaible to everyone.
Praise the sun,
Jens xD
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Tentative Agreement

Post by asianguitarist on Thu May 19, 2016 8:50 am

I would concur with this. However, I think it's vital that rules for this are laid out clearly and in detail.

How would you vote on a mod? Strawpoll? Google Forms? Something else?

What is the basis for voting? Popularity? Performance? Number of bans? General conduct? A combination of some or all of these?

What happens if a mod is voted out? How is that determined? Simple majority (over 50%)? 2/3 majority? 3/4 majority?

I'm sure there are other things to discuss, so feel free to fill in anything I missed.

I also agree with what Jens said. It's important that all of this publicly available.


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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by namisuken on Thu May 19, 2016 9:11 am

Deathwalker wrote:Iam supporting this idea but with the addition of making sure the vote aswell as the results should be publicly avaible to everyone.
Praise the sun,
Jens xD


Of course yes. The polls, the results and the rules to do so would be properly advertised and would be available to any user of animejoy .
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Mod

Post by kingsal403@yahoo.com on Thu May 19, 2016 9:12 am

I agree on namisuken, but everyone should be able to vote for next mod.

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Tiggyz on Thu May 19, 2016 9:17 am

I have to disagree with you for two reasons:

1. The people who complain about the mods most of the time are people that are banned or were banned in the past, aka people who broke the rules on purpose or on accident.

2. What is stopping people for voting to demote a mod just because they don't like them? Lets just say I have a grudge on a mod even though that mod hasn't done anything to me. And what if that mod was a really good mod that everyone liked. I just costed that person's mod position just because I didn't like them.

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by namisuken on Thu May 19, 2016 9:31 am

The Straw Poll is a good site . However , I think it is an issue that we should all share our opinions .

My opinion on how it would work would be:
Once a mod was alerted to abuse , abuse of power , lack or failure to comply with applicable rules (of course, coming from a large number of people and arguments that can be supported with evidence ) , one of his colleagues , it would be an open voting system after being on the seriousness of the situation.

The user could only vote one time , and your IP blocked after the vote go into the system.
The mods could vote as well.

As for the percentage of vote , I think that 2/3 would be indicated.

With this, I wanted the feathers point out that this is MY opinion and I liked to listen to you .
I do not want at all to be like a mini mod just want to have a say when it comes to : Becoming a mod or demoded .
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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by namisuken on Thu May 19, 2016 9:34 am

Tiggyz wrote:I have to disagree with you for two reasons:

1. The people who complain about the mods most of the time are people that are banned or were banned in the past, aka people who broke the rules on purpose or on accident.

2. What is stopping people for voting to demote a mod just because they don't like them? Lets just say I have a grudge on a mod even though that mod hasn't done anything to me. And what if that mod was a really good mod that everyone liked. I just costed that person's mod position just because I didn't like them.



things are not done well . It would have a reason to be and the fact that like it or not this mod would not be a viable factor.
I have to disagree also with the fact that only those who are banished to complain or who have been banned .
I've never been banned, however, I worry about the chat because I use it daily.

If there is a 1% chance of getting it worth the effort.
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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Kras on Thu May 19, 2016 10:06 am

I am afraid I have to disagree on a mass voting system. Democracy would not work in a chatroom like this. I agree with Tiggy's points but there is another I want to introduce.
What if the chat needs new mod very quickly? Maybe the other mods never come online or they quit for some reason.
Organising a mass poll would be very time consuming and there is no list of users. You would have to ensure each user, no matter how new, knew that the poll was happening and allow them adequate time to vote. If it was not desperate modding, this point is void but if we waited for all users to be bothered to vote on every mod, we would have to wait a long time for the modding to go through.

I also do think it is too open to general hate, if there was a system which stopped you from voting if you had a lot of bans it would help a little, but users who did not break rules still grumble about the mods and will disagree with some for personal viewpoints. If a mod is generally hated, that is different. I would argue mods which have very low approval rating should not be mods, so maybe room for true democracy there.

We have to remember that it is impossible for this place to be perfect. Before animejoy I have spent a lot of time on other chatrooms and I am honestly thankful for how seriously user opinions are taken here! Whenever I have issue I message Zero and they are always very polite and tell me that they will see what they can do for me.
Animejoy is a really good place on chatango, there is always room to improve but please do not lose sight of how good we have it here.
Sorry if I have not explained well, I have not had to write this much English in a long time! ^.^

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Tiggyz on Thu May 19, 2016 10:08 am

I have to disagree with you. All the times I have been lurking on the chat, not once do I see people complaining about the mods unless they were banned. Also like you said this "system" will lead to mini-modding and chaos. Honestly if people don't like the rules or how mods run the site, they can easily leave the chat and find somewhere else

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Kras on Thu May 19, 2016 10:10 am

I have been here maybe two weeks and I see a lot of complaining about the mods from users who have never been banned and never even get warning. Maybe you are not on very often

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Tiggyz on Thu May 19, 2016 10:14 am

I'm pretty much on the chat most of the time. Not once do I see a problem

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Kras on Thu May 19, 2016 10:20 am

That is not what you said on chat earlier but anyway, I agree with you that this system would not work. Just different reasons

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by namisuken on Thu May 19, 2016 10:58 am

Tiggyz wrote:I have to disagree with you. All the times I have been lurking on the chat, not once do I see people complaining about the mods unless they were banned. Also like you said this "system" will lead to mini-modding and chaos. Honestly if people don't like the rules or how mods run the site, they can easily leave the chat and find somewhere else

that's what people being doing. i guess i'm a little more stubborn than them.
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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by namisuken on Thu May 19, 2016 11:38 am

Kras wrote:I am afraid I have to disagree on a mass voting system. Democracy would not work in a chatroom like this. I agree with Tiggy's points but there is another I want to introduce.
What if the chat needs new mod very quickly? Maybe the other mods never come online or they quit for some reason.
Organising a mass poll would be very time consuming and there is no list of users. You would have to ensure each user, no matter how new, knew that the poll was happening and allow them adequate time to vote. If it was not desperate modding, this point is void but if we waited for all users to be bothered to vote on every mod, we would have to wait a long time for the modding to go through.

I also do think it is too open to general hate, if there was a system which stopped you from voting if you had a lot of bans it would help a little, but users who did not break rules still grumble about the mods and will disagree with some for personal viewpoints. If a mod is generally hated, that is different. I would argue mods which have very low approval rating should not be mods, so maybe room for true democracy there.

We have to remember that it is impossible for this place to be perfect. Before animejoy I have spent a lot of time on other chatrooms and I am honestly thankful for how seriously user opinions are taken here! Whenever I have issue I message Zero and they are always very polite and tell me that they will see what they can do for me.
Animejoy is a really good place on chatango, there is always room to improve but please do not lose sight of how good we have it here.
Sorry if I have not explained well, I have not had to write this much English in a long time! ^.^


I see where you want to reach . and I agree that the system may have flaws. Although I have never said this was going forward at least people are talking about it . Arguments create arguments and that is what ajChat need, people expose problems in the best possible way and that can reach the most diverse people.
I believe that this post getting a lot of attention , something will change for the better.

Thank you for sharing your opinion .
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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by onehellofabutler on Thu May 19, 2016 5:14 pm

asianguitarist wrote:How would you vote on a mod? Strawpoll? Google Forms? Something else?

This website hosts the ability for polls, so we wouldn't need an outside source.

Tiggyz wrote:I'm pretty much on the chat most of the time. Not once do I see a problem

I get complaints about certain mods being rude, short, ignorant or abusing power often, by more than a few users. I'm not going to drop names but there have been nearly ten people complaining in recent days, in PM's and Skype about certain AJ mods. All of these users are not repeat rule breakers, so there is a problem underlying somewhere. People just find it easier to talk about it when said person(s), is not present.

Tiggyz wrote:I have to disagree with you for two reasons:

1. The people who complain about the mods most of the time are people that are banned or were banned in the past, aka people who broke the rules on purpose or on accident.

2. What is stopping people for voting to demote a mod just because they don't like them? Lets just say I have a grudge on a mod even though that mod hasn't done anything to me. And what if that mod was a really good mod that everyone liked. I just costed that person's mod position just because I didn't like them.

Very good point. Thus a democracy on voting IN/OUT mods via regular users would not be the best option. I know this for a fact given how people have hoards of friends who could swing the vote, just because the ring leaders asks them to. So there would be a LOT of bias in voting for mods. Considering the large group of trolls that will on occasion sweep AJ (lead by a certain user who is currently banned), it would be easy for someone like that and their gang, to quickly vote AJ into a lawless cancer room: like many other rooms across chatango are.

So obviously voting via regular user isn't the answer. HOWEVER, when there is obviously a problem an the masses across the board from more than one friend circle (including the loners as well), have an issue with certain mod(s). I agree stronger action should be taken to deal with the underlying issue. Ignoring an issue won't make it go away. So in that light... My suggestion on this would be to take screen shots of where a mod is being unmod-like to you and abusing power, and post it in a thread titled with that mods username. So a track record can be kept on said mod. This would help the mod see what they are doing wrong, and give them a chance to correct their conduct. If the thread gets past a certain number of legitimate screen shot posts (by more than one user), making it obvious said mod is not changing or acting as a good mod. He or she could then be demodded after a certain number of incidents are reached. This would eliminate any unfair or bias de-modding, or unfair voting.

As a mod, I believe this system would work. Considering we use a similar system to consider regular users for a permaban, and that has worked for us (beyond issues with proxy users). But yes.

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Anonarooni on Thu May 19, 2016 5:28 pm

I think this should be voted on much like what you'd see in government. let the majority do the vote, but let the mod team make a final vote on demodding in case of an abuse of the system. we all know there is an entire secondary chat just waiting for the opportunity to demod SEVERAL of the current mod staff and their votes alone would out number that of our own users ten fold. Now, some of the current mods are familiar with this chat and a few others that i have given them the links for and some i have kept to myself based on a personal moral code, but i digress. These guys would jump at the opportunity in a heart beat and rekt everything.

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Vaporware on Thu May 19, 2016 5:30 pm

onehellofabutler wrote: My suggestion on this would be to take screen shots of where a mod is being unmod-like to you and abusing power, and post it in a thread titled with that mods username. So a track record can be kept on said mod. This would help the mod see what they are doing wrong, and give them a chance to correct their conduct. If the thread gets past a certain number of legitimate screen shot posts (by more than one user), making it obvious said mod is not changing or acting as a good mod. He or she could then be demodded after a certain number of incidents are reached. This would eliminate any unfair or bias de-modding, or unfair voting.

As a mod, I believe this system would work. Considering we use a similar system to consider regular users for a permaban, and that has worked for us (beyond issues with proxy users). But yes.
I really like this idea. +1 for this.

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by ShadowCreep on Thu May 19, 2016 5:55 pm

All of these arguments are good, but then you have to also concider this.

Making this a publicly available thing, might start putting people against eachother. While there's going to be a con Mod A group, there's going to be a pro Mod A group, and that's going to divide the chatroom into groups aswell. While I think it's more or less meant as a place where everyone gets together and has fun, giving personalities do clash and things will happen no matter what.

I've heard A LOT of complaints against certain mods aswell, as have I had complaints against some of them. Eventhough I've never been banned, only got like, 1-2 warning that were justified concidering I was close to actually breaking the rules.

I agree with the fact that making a poll or something along those lines, a voting system, would most likely be counterproductive with the people that got banned, but you could also put a reason box in there, as in to why people people vote into demodding a mod.

Also, why does it only have to be a negative version of this. You could have a positive version, where people post the good things mods do, so that there is a way to weight down good against bad.

"Oh this mod has rushed many decisions and has been unfair against people in the chatroom" ... "BUT, they have also been really helpful, and have been there to help those that needed help and asked for help".

If you're only going to post the negative things mods do, you're going to just get mods themselves scared to just do anything.

So althought I do see this as a somewhat good system as in to make the people vote for who mods or unmods, and keep those votes as a part of the choice into picking it, I also think it could be somewhat of a bad thing at the same time.

I'm just not quite sure how well it would work for a chatroom.

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Zero on Thu May 19, 2016 6:22 pm

In the current state of things, most people who have a problem with a mod tend to just complain about them openly in the chat. This does nothing useful, and all of us can see that, regardless of how we feel about the idea presented in this post. It is against the rules to do that in chat because of the fact that people like to sit around passive aggressively, or in some cases full aggressively, insulting mods instead of actually trying to get the issue resolved. Creating a new system to handle mod appointment may do something, but it doesn't address the underlying problem that some of the people seem unwilling to put forth any effort to get the issues they notice resolved.

In my opinion, having a mass voting system is inefficient and ineffective. There are infinitely many ways to rig the votes in either direction. Take strawpoll as an example, sure, you can set it to only accept one vote per IP. I don't know about everyone else, but I have two devices with separate outward-facing IP addresses within a a foot of my hands. Additionally, circumventing the IP vote limit is entirely too easy. No serious poll ever has used strawpoll, and that's exactly why. IF this system were to be implemented, it would have to be done in such a way where votes are associated with a username, to ensure each person gets one vote. Even if that were done, it is still entirely possible to flood the votes with friends, or many other forms of result engineering that were mentioned earlier by Anonarooni and others. That is why, at this point, I feel that having the userbase directly vote mods out and in is not something that can work.

However, I do feel like it would be a good idea to put more power in the hands of the users. In regards to de-modding mods who abuse power or behave inappropriately, 09091 and myself are always willing to listen to and investigate claims of this occurring. Right now, this is handled by simply PMing one of us, but we are looking into implementing alternate ways (suggested by zero) to receive your concerns in a more organized manner.
An idea proposed by onehellofabutler suggested users posting screen shots of these incidents. While I think it is important to have screenshot evidence, I feel that many users won't be comfortable having their name attached to posts of this nature. I feel that if the users could post these anonymously, it would be certainly be worth giving consideration. I also feel like instead of the mods being dismissed on a set number of issues, it should depend on the severity of the incidents and whether or not they put honest effort into correcting the behaviours.

In regards to adding mods, I feel that it would just be a mess trying to mass vote in mods, and that many people would simply vote for their friends or vote down people they don't like based on bias or grudges, without giving any real consideration to whether or not the person would make a good mod.
I think it would be a great idea, instead, if users suggested new mods along with reasons why they think that person would be a good mod, and our current staff will take it into serious consideration if the user(s) are able to provide solid reasons. If there is a functioning system of removing unfair mods, then there is reduced danger of new mods abusing power, as they could be quickly removed if this ended up the case. At present, our current mod team spends a few days discussing the pros and cons of each mod candidate, and then we take it to a final vote. I would like to keep the process to approving or denying mods to be as it is, but even so would definitely welcome input regarding new mods from users at any point.

Regardless of the outcome of this thread, I'm delighted to see so many users actively participating on here, and will gladly welcome any additional ideas that anyone has!

As it always has been, for now, please contact myself or 09091 at any time if you have a dispute regarding a ban or how a mod has treated you, and we will do everything possible to resolve your complaint.

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Simply on Thu May 19, 2016 9:59 pm

i gotta say that democracy while a nice idea probably wouldnt work as some have stated but i do believe that should enough people complain seriously about any particular mod users opinions should be considered

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by namisuken on Fri May 20, 2016 7:46 am

Anonarooni wrote:I think this should be voted on much like what you'd see in government. let the majority do the vote, but let the mod team make a final vote on demodding in case of an abuse of the system. we all know there is an entire secondary chat just waiting for the opportunity to demod SEVERAL of the current mod staff and their votes alone would out number that of our own users ten fold. Now, some of the current mods are familiar with this chat and a few others that i have given them the links for and some i have kept to myself based on a personal moral code, but i digress. These guys would jump at the opportunity in a heart beat and rekt everything.



to be a voting system all have to be prepared and organized so that the Mods / admin managed to control all the information entered in the database . however, a lot of work to create a system of this magnitude.

There is a problem in the relationship Mod - User , either for personal reasons or others.

Some users even with complaints ( properly documented ) there is not much that an admin can do if it is not on a large scale .

It does not seem a bad idea to be a system or site extension with the names of mods and admin where they could submit feedback (good or bad ) which is stored in the database for further evaluation of the whole team .
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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by namisuken on Fri May 20, 2016 7:53 am

ShadowCreep wrote:All of these arguments are good, but then you have to also concider this.

Making this a publicly available thing, might start putting people against eachother. While there's going to be a con Mod A group, there's going to be a pro Mod A group, and that's going to divide the chatroom into groups aswell. While I think it's more or less meant as a place where everyone gets together and has fun, giving personalities do clash and things will happen no matter what.

I've heard A LOT of complaints against certain mods aswell, as have I had complaints against some of them. Eventhough I've never been banned, only got like, 1-2 warning that were justified concidering I was close to actually breaking the rules.

I agree with the fact that making a poll or something along those lines, a voting system, would most likely be counterproductive with the people that got banned, but you could also put a reason box in there, as in to why people people vote into demodding a mod.

Also, why does it only have to be a negative version of this. You could have a positive version, where people post the good things mods do, so that there is a way to weight down good against bad.

"Oh this mod has rushed many decisions and has been unfair against people in the chatroom" ... "BUT, they have also been really helpful, and have been there to help those that needed help and asked for help".

If you're only going to post the negative things mods do, you're going to just get mods themselves scared to just do anything.

So althought I do see this as a somewhat good system as in to make the people vote for who mods or unmods, and keep those votes as a part of the choice into picking it, I also think it could be somewhat of a bad thing at the same time.

I'm just not quite sure how well it would work for a chatroom.



The idea itself is to make some changes in the system currently implemented . Many users have many things to say about the Mods team, however, we know very well that there are many personal problems which complicates communication between them .

If there was the possibility to file a complaint without having to speak directly with someone, it would be stored in that same Mod database and subsequently evaluated and studied by the remaining team think it would be a good solution.
And of course, that possitivos feedback would also be taken into account.
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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by namisuken on Fri May 20, 2016 8:10 am

RobotSpaceWalrus wrote:In the current state of things, most people who have a problem with a mod tend to just complain about them openly in the chat. This does nothing useful, and all of us can see that, regardless of how we feel about the idea presented in this post. It is against the rules to do that in chat because of the fact that people like to sit around passive aggressively, or in some cases full aggressively, insulting mods instead of actually trying to get the issue resolved. Creating a new system to handle mod appointment may do something, but it doesn't address the underlying problem that some of the people seem unwilling to put forth any effort to get the issues they notice resolved.

In my opinion, having a mass voting system is inefficient and ineffective. There are infinitely many ways to rig the votes in either direction. Take strawpoll as an example, sure, you can set it to only accept one vote per IP. I don't know about everyone else, but I have two devices with separate outward-facing IP addresses within a a foot of my hands. Additionally, circumventing the IP vote limit is entirely too easy. No serious poll ever has used strawpoll, and that's exactly why. IF this system were to be implemented, it would have to be done in such a way where votes are associated with a username, to ensure each person gets one vote. Even if that were done, it is still entirely possible to flood the votes with friends, or many other forms of result engineering that were mentioned earlier by Anonarooni and others. That is why, at this point, I feel that having the userbase directly vote mods out and in is not something that can work.

However, I do feel like it would be a good idea to put more power in the hands of the users. In regards to de-modding mods who abuse power or behave inappropriately, 09091 and myself are always willing to listen to and investigate claims of this occurring. Right now, this is handled by simply PMing one of us, but we are looking into implementing alternate ways (suggested by zero) to receive your concerns in a more organized manner.
    An idea proposed by onehellofabutler suggested users posting screen shots of these incidents. While I think it is important to have screenshot evidence, I feel that many users won't be comfortable having their name attached to posts of this nature. I feel that if the users could post these anonymously, it would be certainly be worth giving consideration. I also feel like instead of the mods being dismissed on a set number of issues, it should depend on the severity of the incidents and whether or not they put honest effort into correcting the behaviours.

In regards to adding mods, I feel that it would just be a mess trying to mass vote in mods, and that many people would simply vote for their friends or vote down people they don't like based on bias or grudges, without giving any real consideration to whether or not the person would make a good mod.
    I think it would be a great idea, instead, if users suggested new mods along with reasons why they think that person would be a good mod, and our current staff will take it into serious consideration if the user(s) are able to provide solid reasons. If there is a functioning system of removing unfair mods, then there is reduced danger of new mods abusing power, as they could be quickly removed if this ended up the case. At present, our current mod team spends a few days discussing the pros and cons of each mod candidate, and then we take it to a final vote. I would like to keep the process to approving or denying mods to be as it is, but even so would definitely welcome input regarding new mods from users at any point.

Regardless of the outcome of this thread, I'm delighted to see so many users actively participating on here, and will gladly welcome any additional ideas that anyone has!

As it always has been, for now, please contact myself or 09091 at any time if you have a dispute regarding a ban or how a mod has treated you, and we will do everything possible to resolve your complaint.





evidence and complaints against mods have been made. the problem is that for something to be done it is necessary that a large number of people reporting clear evidence of misconduct, abuse of power, lack of interest (etc etc) of a certain Mod another Mod who has problems on a personal level or not they will not do.

AJ lost many users, many of them regulars. Only then you can see that something is wrong.

The users should have a linked AJchat platform where they could submit complaints, opinions and praise the job done without having to speak directly to someone who does not like or do not feel comfortable doing it.
There must be a current listing of the mods and all that were inserted properly identified and accompanied by screenshots would be on the basis of data from each of these mods.

As for adding mods like AJ Staff - a list (by Mods / Admin) of people who would find eligible for the job and this list should be public knowledge should be created, and so we could give our opinion.

Chat Users need and understand that we have our duties and our rights MAS believe have our opinion more into account would only benefit. We must be an active part in running the chat, as well as in their bureaucracies.

Even within the team Mod's preferences and not everybody likes everybody but I do not think a mod should be protected just because other colleagues like it.
From the moment in which users leave the chat cause one or two Mods something goes wrong.
Feelings and emotions do not, NOT, should be taken into account so hard.

If a Mod does not bring anything good to chat, lost users so if you do not feel comfortable talking with some mod or mods, there is a serious problem.

With that, I would just point out that I turned to zero to present my complaints and how to know there are people who also have something to say, I decided to create this topic so openly, we can talk and come to a conclusion.
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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Vaporware on Fri May 20, 2016 11:01 am

namisuken wrote:
evidence and complaints against mods have been made. the problem is that for something to be done it is necessary that a large number of people reporting clear evidence of misconduct, abuse of power, lack of interest (etc etc) of a certain Mod another Mod who has problems on a personal level or not they will not do.

AJ lost many users, many of them regulars. Only then you can see that something is wrong.

The users should have a linked AJchat platform where they could submit complaints, opinions and praise the job done without having to speak directly to someone who does not like or do not feel comfortable doing it.
There must be a current listing of the mods and all that were inserted properly identified and accompanied by screenshots would be on the basis of data from each of these mods.

As for adding mods like AJ Staff - a list (by Mods / Admin) of people who would find eligible for the job and this list should be public knowledge should be created, and so we could give our opinion.

Chat Users need and understand that we have our duties and our rights MAS believe have our opinion more into account would only benefit. We must be an active part in running the chat, as well as in their bureaucracies.

Even within the team Mod's preferences and not everybody likes everybody but I do not think a mod should be protected just because other colleagues like it.
From the moment in which users leave the chat cause one or two Mods something goes wrong.
Feelings and emotions do not, NOT, should be taken into account so hard.

If a Mod does not bring anything good to chat, lost users so if you do not feel comfortable talking with some mod or mods, there is a serious problem.

With that, I would just point out that I turned to zero to present my complaints and how to know there are people who also have something to say, I decided to create this topic so openly, we can talk and come to a conclusion.
Most of the users that left were the problem. They were toxic people who couldn't tolerate the presence of mods because they constantly insulted others, talked about pedophilia, used racist, sexist and homophobic language etc. When reliable mods became a thing, a lot of the old users left because they couldn't tolerate having to follow rules. The changes you want to make would bring them back and turn the chat back into a toxic wasteland where the trolls would be in control. This is not acceptable. Doing anything by popular vote wouldn't work in a place like this. Its a good idea in theory, but in practice it would destroy everything.

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by namisuken on Fri May 20, 2016 11:42 am

You could still ban them again, what I'm saying is there's a problem that needs to be solved ignoring that is won't bring good things to the chat.
the chat will be 'destroyed' either way if nothing changes it. people leaving is not ideal for a chatroom. things can work if people try to improve themselves and the Aj chat.
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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Zero on Fri May 20, 2016 2:32 pm

Regarding the ability to submit mod complaints without talking to someone, the only way I think that would be possible is if a forum section is created where anyone can submit a post but only the forum administrators can view it.

I feel like this probably could be done easily and would likely take 5 minutes or so of my time to create, but before doing so I want to know for certain that this is what is wanted. I need to verify that this is possible but from my past experience, I believe that this forum is capable of it.

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Vaporware on Fri May 20, 2016 3:16 pm

Here is my idea to combine the ideas of roro and seb:

If enough abusive screenshot evidence is provided, the mods start an open vote that only verified accounts vote on in a separate section of these forums only verified users can access. Only users who have not been banned for major offenses like sexual content, racist/homophobic/sexist/ language etc. When time expires,  the final opinions are tallied and the decision is made based on that.


Last edited by Vaporware on Fri May 20, 2016 3:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by namisuken on Fri May 20, 2016 3:26 pm

so basically you're just picking a group of people to vote although they are only a part of the users? that's not democratic
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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Vaporware on Fri May 20, 2016 3:32 pm

namisuken wrote:so basically you're just picking a group of people to vote although they are only a part of the users? that's not democratic
So you want racist pedophiles to tip the vote against good mods? If we allowed those people to vote all of the mods would be removed. Your system can not work. In a sense, this is like real voting. People have to "earn citizenship" which comes with the right to vote.

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Zero on Fri May 20, 2016 3:38 pm

We do not want to handpick a group of people to vote. From what I believe, the vote would be open to most regular users and only exclude chronic troublemakers or users who are new, allowing them to eventually vote as they stick around for a decent bit of time. Allowing every user to vote with no regulations would be inefficient, ineffective, and extremely easy to manipulate.

"that's not democratic" All democratic systems have some regulations as to who can and cannot vote. In several, convicted felons are stripped of voting rights. In all, there is an age requirement. These regulations are in place in governing bodies of nations because they realize the same thing that we do, it would be disastrous to have democracy with no form of regulation to prevent exploitation.

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Vaporware on Fri May 20, 2016 3:52 pm

I did not mean to imply we only pick a select handful of people. We need to look at specific users, their length of time spent here, and the severity/frequency of rules broken if applicable to make sure there aren't duplicates or major trolls mucking things up. There should be a cut off date for rules that have been broken to affect an eligibility to vote, with extreme exceptions like child pornography and rampant hate speech.

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by namisuken on Fri May 20, 2016 4:17 pm

RobotSpaceWalrus wrote:We do not want to handpick a group of people to vote. From what I believe, the vote would be open to most regular users and only exclude chronic troublemakers or users who are new, allowing them to eventually vote as they stick around for a decent bit of time. Allowing every user to vote with no regulations would be inefficient, ineffective, and extremely easy to manipulate.

"that's not democratic" All democratic systems have some regulations as to who can and cannot vote. In several, convicted felons are stripped of voting rights. In all, there is an age requirement. These regulations are in place in governing bodies of nations because they realize the same thing that we do, it would be disastrous to have democracy with no form of regulation to prevent exploitation.


even so I think that won't solve anything. people will feel left out and will bring more issues.
if that's a solution you came up with just let things be as they are.
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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by namisuken on Fri May 20, 2016 4:36 pm

Vaporware wrote:
namisuken wrote:so basically you're just picking a group of people to vote although they are only a part of the users? that's not democratic
So you want racist pedophiles to tip the vote against good mods? If we allowed those people to vote all of the mods would be removed. Your system can not work. In a sense, this is like real voting. People have to "earn citizenship" which comes with the right to vote.


pedophiles?  a mod only interest should be the well-being of the chat and of this group. I will not stand by a person who says so bad things about people that are not present to defend themselves. you can not call people such a terrible thing just because you don't want them back cause you know very well not everyone likes you and you had moments when you less correct aswell. I will not tolerate such behavior coming from a mod.
even if they done a lot of bad things they still are users and more of that, they are people  
you CAN'T talk bad or accusing someone of something if you do exactly the same thing.

it's because of situations like this, a system should be implemented.
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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by ShadowCreep on Fri May 20, 2016 5:24 pm

Several really good points have been made when it comes to implementing a system like this.

Although, I do agree that, if someone has been banned or warned or has been punished in general by a mod, wether it be fair or unfair, because there are probably cases out there that might not have been as bad as depicted, when screenshorts are made that might not be showing the complete context, I do agree with Nami that they are still people.

Keeping that in mind, just because someone is regular, also doesn't mean that their vote should be concidered heavier, because they might not be online as much at the same time as the mod that is being "dealt with", and thus could have their vote influenced like that.

Same goes into having a forum post where people post pics of when mods misbehave. Screenshots can be manipulated in many ways by many people. I'm not saying that there are cases like this already, not saying there aren't. And I know a chat log could be kept to prevent this from happening.

But having a voting system like this in a chatroom, with so many people coming and going, or having a forum post where people can just send screenshots through pm, and let their friends post more or less the same thing in the same post, is also inefficient. Probably equally inefficient as a poll or a vote or something along those lines.

If this was to happen, just saying that regulars are allowed to vote, and non regulars aren't, is going to put the people that might've been there at that time, but aren't a regular, out of the line, which could be a potential important vote.

The more you're going to include or exclude people, the bigger the margin of "error" as to say would be. Perhaps everyone should be aloowed to vote in this then in the end, where there might be a degree of importance into people's votes. But that would then require more work aswell in making the final decision.

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by ShadowCreep on Fri May 20, 2016 5:26 pm

Also, you guys need to take a chill pill cuz it's slowly starting to get out of hand on here >_>

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Zero on Fri May 20, 2016 5:56 pm

I would just like to step in for a second and clarify that vapor did not accuse any individual of being a pedophile. She listed that as an example, for example if there was ever someone in the chat who was found to be a pedophile, we shouldn't allow them a vote in the ruling. She did not name anyone or accuse anyone of this behaviour.

It is completely overreacting to go off on her like that over an example, she was not accusing anyone of anything.
We all need to take a step back and not take anything said here personally. This is about expressing ideas and trying to come together to make progress, no one is here to fight.

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by namisuken on Fri May 20, 2016 5:58 pm

RobotSpaceWalrus wrote:I would just like to step in for a second and clarify that vapor did not accuse any individual of being a pedophile. She listed that as an example, for example if there was ever someone in the chat who was found to be a pedophile, we shouldn't allow them a vote in the ruling. She did not name anyone or accuse anyone of this behaviour.

It is completely overreacting to go off on her like that over an example, she was not accusing anyone of anything.
We all need to take a step back and not take anything said here personally. This is about expressing ideas and trying to come together to make progress, no one is here to fight.

excuse me. but if she said that on chat and if she would be a regular user what would happen? if you have a status here you have to make people respect you . in my opinion that was not said has an example. either way, i think will see how this all thing ends.

I'm just glad this is getting enough attentio so people can see and leave their opinion about it.
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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Zero on Fri May 20, 2016 6:25 pm

It was very much an example. It was an example of an extreme but it was not directed at a specific user.

If it was said on chat? That doesn't really matter, because this is NOT chat. This forum does not have the same rules as the chat. We are more open to talk about subjects because they may need to be discussed. I know Vapor's post was not the most diplomatic in the world but you are entirely misinterpreting it. She did not accuse any particular person of being a racist pedophile.

I would like to now remind everyone that this forum is not Animejoy1.chatango.com, it is nimejoymoderators.forumotion.com. This may be intended as a tool for the improvement of the chat, but it is not the chat. The rules of the chat are not the rules here.

I created this particular forum and zero and I are the administrators of it. As an administrator of this forum, I will additionally remind everyone now that it is important to stay on discussing the idea presented in this forum topic. Off topic posts only distract from the topic at hand. This topic is about discussing ideas for and the plausibility of a more democratic system in chat. Other posts belong elsewhere.

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by namisuken on Fri May 20, 2016 6:32 pm

RobotSpaceWalrus wrote:It was very much an example. It was an example of an extreme but it was not directed at a specific user.

If it was said on chat? That doesn't really matter, because this is NOT chat. This forum does not have the same rules as the chat. We are more open to talk about subjects because they may need to be discussed. I know Vapor's post was not the most diplomatic in the world but you are entirely misinterpreting it. She did not accuse any particular person of being a racist pedophile.

I would like to now remind everyone that this forum is not Animejoy1.chatango.com, it is nimejoymoderators.forumotion.com. This may be intended as a tool for the improvement of the chat, but it is not the chat. The rules of the chat are not the rules here.

I created this particular forum and zero and I are the administrators of it. As an administrator of this forum, I will additionally remind everyone now that it is important to stay on discussing the idea presented in this forum topic. Off topic posts only distract from the topic at hand. This topic is about discussing ideas for and the plausibility of a more democratic system in chat. Other posts belong elsewhere.





It allows me to disagree . yes, this is not a chat and are not imposed the same rules here, however , is related to the Chat And Mods / Users .

Whatever you say here will have a positive impact or not.

In my perspective was an "example " unnecessary and can be misinterpreted .

With this, I hope that more people share the opinion that formed on this topic .
I think there are many users that I personally would like to see what they have to say.
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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Vaporware on Fri May 20, 2016 6:33 pm

namisuken wrote:
RobotSpaceWalrus wrote:I would just like to step in for a second and clarify that vapor did not accuse any individual of being a pedophile. She listed that as an example, for example if there was ever someone in the chat who was found to be a pedophile, we shouldn't allow them a vote in the ruling. She did not name anyone or accuse anyone of this behaviour.

It is completely overreacting to go off on her like that over an example, she was not accusing anyone of anything.
We all need to take a step back and not take anything said here personally. This is about expressing ideas and trying to come together to make progress, no one is here to fight.

excuse me. but if she said that on chat and if she would be a regular user what would happen? if you have a status here you have to make people respect you . in my opinion that was not said has an example. either way, i think will see how this all thing ends.

I'm just glad this is getting enough attentio so people can see and leave their opinion about it.
You obviously misinterpreted what i said. It was an example of the kind of people we don't want voting. I did not accuse anyone. I didn't even mention a person, time or place. I am confused as to how you came to the conclusion i was talking about a specific person?

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by ShadowCreep on Fri May 20, 2016 6:35 pm

RobotSpaceWalrus wrote:It was very much an example. It was an example of an extreme but it was not directed at a specific user.

If it was said on chat? That doesn't really matter, because this is NOT chat. This forum does not have the same rules as the chat. We are more open to talk about subjects because they may need to be discussed. I know Vapor's post was not the most diplomatic in the world but you are entirely misinterpreting it. She did not accuse any particular person of being a racist pedophile.

I would like to now remind everyone that this forum is not Animejoy1.chatango.com, it is nimejoymoderators.forumotion.com. This may be intended as a tool for the improvement of the chat, but it is not the chat. The rules of the chat are not the rules here.

I created this particular forum and zero and I are the administrators of it. As an administrator of this forum, I will additionally remind everyone now that it is important to stay on discussing the idea presented in this forum topic. Off topic posts only distract from the topic at hand. This topic is about discussing ideas for and the plausibility of a more democratic system in chat. Other posts belong elsewhere.

Actually, all of the things that are being said have been derived or are related to the original post made. So what you say may aswell be true, it's completely irrelevant on this matter.

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Angroro on Fri May 20, 2016 6:42 pm

Might I suggest a digression from this argument... Opinions should be voiced, however it should not result in petty arguments. This is sort of deplorable behavior.

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by namisuken on Fri May 20, 2016 6:47 pm

I will not continue this conversation , as Jeff said, " Other posts belong elsewhere . "
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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by namisuken on Fri May 20, 2016 7:42 pm

The Animejoy1 Forums, because we are nothing without our users.
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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Zcarf on Fri May 20, 2016 9:14 pm

Lemme step right in, before the lounge for developement becomes a rightless war for rights.
I thought this forum was to decide a system that would help the chat develop by descentralising a bit of power from the mod team, and reposition it in the users, that is, the chat itself.so why the heck did it drift off to this ? Back to main topic pretty please.
Straw poll Voting?too many flaws, troll raids and ip tricks can outsmart it.
Screenshot and complain posting?proved to be too weak of a system, though considerably better than the strawpoll one.
We need to get something that gets the bnefits of each system ans leaes as many disadvantagea out.No system is perfect, but we can all try for something better.
Any ideas ? Nothing's terminantly decided yet, and there is always room for improvement.Im grateful for this forums and for the voiced opinions, ae are finnally growing as a comunity, but please lets avoid stepping onto the ember.Flames are pretty when bright, but flamewars are anything but 'being bright'.

So, ideas ^^?


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O.O

Post by nobutaaaaaaaaa on Sat May 21, 2016 7:37 pm

How about using SurveyMonkey for voting? It's used by big companies and they have some security measures placed (like IP Tracking). I personally haven't used it before, but perhaps an option?

Made this poll to test... surveymonkey.com/r/T2J6695

OK. I noticed you can vote again if you delete your history D:
IP address was recorded (votes had same IP address)
It could work if we analyze IP addresses when counting votes
Then again... one person can have more than one address if they want to game the system Sad
I don't recommend!

I'll think some more...

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Zero on Sun May 22, 2016 2:01 am

Since this conversation has gotten a bit lost in itself, maybe I should make two new topics about it? One about a potential voting system and another for a complaint box?

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by Zero on Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:22 pm

after months of thinking about this, i think i finally managed to figure out a way it could work..is anyone still interested in this?

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

Post by onehellofabutler on Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:17 pm

Overall, things seem to be working now. But if other people still want it, sure.

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Re: Consider adding this new rule.

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